Jenas dropped for sulking

Apparently he wasn't injured. Ramos showing his ruthless streak after Jenas grumbled at his half-time sub vs Cheatski?

In that case I'm glad he was dropped.

He's definetly lost his form since the CC Final.

I also thought both Tommy Hudd and Zokora had good games vs Pompey. However the problem is they had good games individually and i'm still not convinced we've come across a good combination in the center. Jenas + Zokora, Zokora + Hudd, Hudd + Jenas etc has yet to convince.

I'm still not sure why the Jenas + Tainio partnership that worked so successfully vs the scum and initially vs man utd in the cup has been abandoned?

The problem with our midfield is lack of consistency. Jenas and Zokora occasionally play superb but never week in, week out.

Replacing the central midfield in the summer must be top priority.

I actually think Zokora has been fairly consistent and generally gives good perfomances.

Jenas is the archetypal one-in-four player.

DannyBoy wrote:

I actually think Zokora has been fairly consistent and generally gives good perfomances.

Jenas is the archetypal one-in-four player.

I actually think Zokora has been fairly consistent and generally gives good perfomances average performances.

spur'don wrote:

DannyBoy wrote:

I actually think Zokora has been fairly consistent and generally gives good perfomances.

Jenas is the archetypal one-in-four player.

I actually think Zokora has been fairly consistent and generally gives good perfomances average performances.

on saturday by far the best player in the passing stakes - 55 passes, 95% success rate

As i said he does have the occasional good game.

Zokora isn't the worst player in the PL, however he was brought to replace Carrick, arguably the best central midfield passer in the PL and certaintly the main player responsible for our close run 4th spot challenge in 05'06.

Carrick is worthy of a team playing top four football. Zokora simply wouldn't get into any of the current top starting midfield. If we happy to challenge for 6th-7th spot each season, keep him, if not....

While I do think Zokora has been reasonably good this season, I do agree he's not top-4 material.

It's a bit of a catch-22 I guess though. Will we be able to sign top-4 players if we aren't getting into those positions in the first place?

Good point, Danny.

We'd certainly take Carrick back in a second, price permitting. As many have pointed out, there simply aren't that many top central midfielders out there.

Realistically, who may be able to tempt to the Lane this summer who would be good enough for a top 4 finish?

It would be amazing, but unlikely, if we could nab Diego from Werder Bremen. Apparently him and Ribery are hands down the best players in the Bundesliga at the moment.

Although granted our forays into Germany have been mixed, for Berbatov we've also got a Boateng. Although to be fair the latter is more for the future, or at the very least deserving of another seasons chance.

The other option of course is to look at our own youth system and see if players can be brought in that way: the likes of O'Hara, Boateng, Peritt (sp?), Rose and Andros Townsend. Of course this is a long-term measure and will not bring INSTANT success that a lot of our fans demand.

DannyBoy wrote:

While I do think Zokora has been reasonably good this season, I do agree he's not top-4 material.

It's a bit of a catch-22 I guess though. Will we be able to sign top-4 players if we aren't getting into those positions in the first place?

I agree he's not in the "elite group" premiership midfielders, however he is a player who does a lot of "invisible" work. He breaks down play effectively (although does have his moments of rashness especially outside the box) and has a very high pass rate success - not those spectacular 40 yard passes that most people remember (but come off 50% of the time). I rate him alongside Makelelelelelele, and one could possibly argue his speed on the ball breaking forward is something that Makelelelelelelele doesn't possess (both players can't shoot for shit). His ability to drop into a solid central defence role when Gambler rolls the dice is also an asset.

In fact, watching a few of Carrick's performances this season, I'd say we haven't got worse (but then again maybe Carrick is under pressure following Hargreaves signing). I'd be happy seeing Zok, Hudd, Jenas and one more real quality signing as the four options for centre midfield (and only if Jenas can go from 1 in 4 to at least 1 in 2). I don't think Tainio is worthy of one of those places (although his flexibility to be able to play anywhere on the field may keep his squad place), and I'm still not sure on O'hara's potential as a central player (although he had a couple of great games there when he first broke into the team). KPB - well jury already ruled on his current ability, but may be given more time.

We all agree Carrick is a top four player but he wasn't signed from a successful team. There are plenty of rough diamonds out there to be polished by a successful manager such as Ramos.

Zokora's passing is woeful. I don't go on statistics as they include the simple 2 yard back pass etc. I can't recall a visionary pass or cross from Zokora, like the sort Carrick use to deliver. He doesn't provide enough defensive cover either. He does have an amazing engine and can be effective at disrupting the opposition midfield, however he needs to do so much more than that if Spurs are to progress. The league table doesn't lie. We're 11th with 8 games to go.

spur'don wrote:

We all agree Carrick is a top four player but he wasn't signed from a successful team. There are plenty of rough diamonds out there to be polished by a successful manager such as Ramos.

Zokora's passing is woeful. I don't go on statistics as they include the simple 2 yard back pass etc. I can't recall a visionary pass or cross from Zokora, like the sort Carrick use to deliver. He doesn't provide enough defensive cover either. He does have an amazing engine and can be effective at disrupting the opposition midfield, however he needs to do so much more than that if Spurs are to progress. The league table doesn't lie. We're 11th with 8 games to go.

7 games - don't think they got the go ahead for the "39th game"

You can't blame Zokora for the 11th position. The problems with Goalkeeper and centerbacks pre-Woodgate and during King's injury, and the untimely machinations of the board disrupted the team to the extent that 07/08 was a write-off even early on.

Zokora is not the same player as Carrick and never will be. We need to get over that. If you want to try comparisions with Carrick, Huddlestone is more of an accurate parable. Zokora is more of a destroyer/disrupter figure a role he actually, despite peoples views, has been doing quite well.

You could therefore blame the other midfielder for not doing their job (i.e. the creativity/flair) hence the problem of playing with Jenas (1 in 4) as Zokora is not really the man to be creating much. This is why he needs to be playing with a topclass consistent creative midfielder to get the best use out of him.

Or alternatively get two, more complete (i.e. top 4), midfielders in. These however are hard to come by and expensive.