why we won't finish 5th

the problem for us, and the reason we won't grab 5th, is the fact that all the teams we are in competition with (the best of the rest if you will) are now beginning to look much better than us. Blackburn will be strong this year, Villa, after a 'transitional season' are now beating Chelsea at home, Newcastle will be the New Bolton but with better players and Everton have started quietly and professionally.

Last season all of the above mentioned teams were shaky but now they all look very good. The league is very competitive this season and I simply don't think that we will get 5th. Already the damage has been done and we will now play catch up.


We can give Jol time and things may gel around October but by then it may be too late. As I said at the start of this season I am happy with European football every year as our target but, at this rate at least, we won't get it. The worry is that we are faltering whilst our immediate competitors are strengthening. And by immediate competitors I don't mean the top 4 - that vision was trashed after 90 minutes at Sunderland. It looks like another transitional year for some reason. It should have been a season where we built on the success of the previous two. I wish it was August again...

Agreed, and you have not mentioned Man City yet.

Only way into Europe will be winning a cup, imo.

I was saying this in the summer. Last season's fifth spot was more fortunate than deserved and created a false sense of security.

Jol isn't up to the job. This is not a knee jerk reaction either.

Yes we do look dangerous going forward and are capable of giving any top side a run for their money for 'periods' in a game. The problem is we're incapable of building upon a lead and defending a slim advantage.

Jol rightly receives some criticism in this regard. He is the one making the daft substitutions. Why is sides like Villa, Bolton, Reading and Newcastle can secure points against the top four, whereas deep down you just know that even if Spurs took a 2-0 lead against Arsenal on 15th Sept, we'll end up at best finishing 2-2 or worse.

The squad, under the right manager is still capable of finishing 5th this season, maybe winning a cup too, but the original goal of top four is in my opinion over. Arsenal are back on track....Liverpool have taken a huge leap forward and we all know Chelsea and Man Utd will battle it out for the title come May.

Is there anything to lose by changing manager now and installing someone who knows how to guide the team to victory after taking a 1-3 lead ????

Unfortunately, perhaps Spur'd on is correct.

What REALLY annoys me is the fact we're mkaing the same mistakes as we've done over the last two seasons:

1. Set Pieces (too numerous to count, although conceding 2 to the gooners last season at WHL was particularly galling)

2. Conceding long range goals (again, too numerous to count, from Campo's in the first game of last season to Nani's this season)

3. Not being able to hang on to 2 goal leads (Arsenal in the League Cup, Chelski in the FA Cup, Fulham on Saturday etc)

4. Conceding last minute goals (this season at Sunderland and Fulham and the 2005/6 season at Sunderland, Chelsea, home to West Ham, which cost us CL football)

This means that either the players just cannot deal with the above, or they're not bieng coached properly. Although I think we lack a proper leader on the pitch, which contributes to 3 and 4 above, I think the blame has to lie with the coaching. Therefore, either BMJ shd bring in a specialist defensive coach or perhaps he will be forced out as a result of not bieng able to rectify old problems.

In any business or sport, you give people the chance to put their mistakes right, but if they keep on repeating the same mistake then something is fundamentally wrong.

In relation to set pices, remember it isn't just Prem teams we have problems with. Seville scored 2 of their 4 goals against us from corners.

Spur'd On is right, even if we are 3-0 up at HT against the Gooners, I wd be worried about losing the game!

Long season still to play out, new players to gel (now we're finally getting a decent squad out for games), kids to get more experience and become better team players - think it's way too early to say we wont get Europe through the league.

I personally thought it was the players on the pitch that threw the Fulham game away - our tactics were right. Not just at the end, but putting earlier chances away.

I still love . Although it's starting to appear that I'm in the minority.

Tottingham wrote:

Long season still to play out, new players to gel (now we're finally getting a decent squad out for games), kids to get more experience and become better team players - think it's way too early to say we wont get Europe through the league.

I personally thought it was the players on the pitch that threw the Fulham game away - our tactics were right. Not just at the end, but putting earlier chances away.

I still love . Although it's starting to appear that I'm in the minority.

It's because I didn't slag off jenas enough (like I normally do) that he didn't score the sitter and tried to walk it in the net.

Yes, certain players were at fault, but so was Jol for trying to defend a thin lead against a team that was there for being destroyed. If that were Liverpool, Arse or Man Utd they would of taken Fulham to the cleaners after going a goal or two up.

Stew.

Stew - correct, any of those teams that you mentioned wd've won the game 5-1, like we shd have done.

Tottingham - I think a lot of us are getting to breaking point. When you see the same mistakes being repeated again and again and again you just get so frustrated.

The players have the ability, but it seems like the coaching just isn't there. Jol hasn't got the tactical nous to either close a game down properly or really press home the advantage. Think of what a team coached by benitez or mourinho wd've done in that situation.

What's the betting that we lead at ht against the gooners and end up losing courtesy of a header from Adebayor from a set piece in the last 10 minutes? It is getting to be so predictable.

And although Jol is very good in interviews, his comments of "we need to defend set pieces better" and "we need to be clinical and put away our chances" are becoming as monotonous as Hoddle's "I'm scratching my head where that result came from" or Graham's "I need another three players to compete" or Gross's "vee must vork harda!"

I think Jol will stay for the time being as the board compeltely f*cked up the process of getting a decent replacement. Despite all the above, I still think he shd be given time, but my patience is wearing thinner than the hair on top of his head.

Come on BMJ, sort them out on the training ground and let's go at least 5 games where we don't concede from a set piece or long shot!

It seems like its been the same story for a long time now, even before Jol: We employ a certain starting line up, tactics and style of play, the system and players are working well, we go two goals up, and then we change everything! Substitute players, change formation, go defensive and concede late goals. As the saying goes, if it aint broken don't fix it. Play for the full 90 minutes, not 75 and then decide to settle for the result.

I disagree.

We have a very good squad of players, albeit we have suffered from injuries to significant players particularly, King, Dawson, Lennon and as in now clearly obvious, Bale. KPB has given us a little taste of what we paid 5 Mil for and Bent will hopefully be back for the Arsehols.

I believe we are 1.5 to possibly 2 seasons ahead of our competition for 5th and we will make up for it by the season. Yes, they've started positively, but I expect their bright lights are more than likely to flicker... as NewCastle and Blackburn will run us very close ...

Not including King, who sadly I can't count on for a consistent season free of injury.... I maintain that a team comprising Dawson, Kaboul, Chimbo, Lee, Lennon, Bale, Malbranque, Jenas, Huddlestone, Keano, Berbatov and Darren Bent WILL end up at least 5th.

As I mentioned in another post earlier today, we'll find Glory in Europe this campaign and thanks to Plantini's new rule including UEFA Cup Winner's into Champs League, Levy & Co will have found their Golden Fleece.


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I think it's meaningless even we finish this season with 5th
but keep repeating the same mistake likes conceding goals from set-pieces and long shot. Not being able to hang on to the lead....etc

As someone mentioned before at pre-season . Finish 5th with improvement or not.
However i can't see we can finish with 5 if the story at Craven Cottage last Saturday keeps repeating again and again.

I'm with Janek.

Same old mistakes, same old excuses. Yes, one or two first team players are returning but so what. We had enough quality in the side and bench to comfortable beat Fulham. It wasn't bad luck either....concentration and employing the appropriate tactics would have won us 3pts.

Forget the top four. Teams like Blackburn, Villa and Portsmouth will comfortably collect three points against Spurs, just like Everton did. We can outplay sides for 75 minutes and still fail to win.

Defoe for Keane smacked of appeasement on Jol's part.

Hairy, I think all would agree we have a good squad of players, it's a matter of how to get the best out of them. They need organisation, leadership, motivation and a clear game plan; all of which comes from the manager.

I still can't get Jol's comment about 'how many of our players would get
into a top 4 team' out of my head. Yes - we all know its true (not many) - but for a manager to say it publically is ridiculous. Wenger never has a go about any of his players publically.

The pressure is clearly getting to him. Is it any wonder?

Janek wrote:

And although Jol is very good in interviews, his comments of "we need to defend set pieces better" and "we need to be clinical and put away our chances" are becoming as monotonous as Hoddle's "I'm scratching my head where that result came from" or Graham's "I need another three players to compete" or Gross's "vee must vork harda!"

This had me creasing - Glenn's classic "still scratching my head"....

Agree with your sentiments, said this on another board, other teams have new money and are stepping up the pace, if we are being disadvantaged by our manager's tactics and performance, the board had every right to question and review the situation - but I am pissed off they made such a balls up of it all, so now they are stuck between being ruthless and keeping the bulk of fans happy...

I fear for Jol and the way we let Fulham back in the game by our substitution of Keane and bringing on an extra defender at 3-1 can only increase the scrutiny on his decision making. Hes been good for spurs, but how much time does he need? If he goes after the N London derby, it will be sad but inevitable after the last few week's palavah.

And who do you all think we can get in as manager? And if we get a "name" manager, do you all really want to wait for another 5 yr plan or, at least, another prolonged honeymoon? Because that will be the case unless we start winning consistently almost immediately after the new man is brought in. I think the main reason Spurs are not gatecrashing into the top 4 is we simply don't have a real midfield general. The players we have are quite good but no-one seems to be able to read the tempo of the game since Carrick left and we came so close with with him but with less top calibre players. Now if Jol is the one doing the buying and selling then he definitely should get more of the "blame" but that doesn't seem to be the case. Yes, he's made some daft substitutions but he's also brought us to where we are today. He may not be able to bring us that bit further but I personally feel he has earned at least until the summer (and with no interference) to show us where we're heading before a major decision on his future as manager should be made.

Jol has played a part in getting us where we are, true he hasn't done it on a shoe string budget. Plenty of dosh thrown around.

The reason I'm so annoyed is I'm confident Everton and Blackburn will finish above us this season. Man for man our team is better....so why do
I feel this way ? The answer - Saturday. So typical of Spurs under Jol since August 2006. He has assembled a decent squad - he just can't get the best out of them.

Levy messed up the timing and manner seeking other options, however I maintain he was right to do so. This 'big' show of support everyones expecting at our first home game since the saga began is rapidly diminishing. After the result against Fulham Levy is likely to face considerably less criticism than he would have done two weeks ago.

I think a lot of fans are privately beginning to agree with him.

I still can't get over the stupidity of bring Dawson on for Malbranque. I can forgive the Keane sub cos it should have been a like for like swap. The fact Defoe is a lazy wan**r who should have gone in the summer is besides the point. Dawson for Malbranque cost us our rhythm in midfield, forced us to defend deep and ultimately lost us 2 points.

Forgivable if it was merely a one off. It's not and you know it won't be the last while Jol is in charge.

He has lost the dressing room too.

My question is still: Who can we get to come in and instantly turn us into contenders? Jol did not have experience managing in a big club but he has shown progress every season. I think he is learning but not as fast as some would like. I just don't want to go back to the days when we change managers every one or two seasons. This just disrupts everything. Look at Everton. Moyes would have been off in the following year after their 4th place finish if he was managing us. My point is if you get rid of someone who's admittedly taking baby steps, you had better be 100% sure his replacement will deliver the goods much, much faster or its groundshog 5 yr plan all over again and, frankly, I've had enough of that.

spur'don wrote:

I still can't get Jol's comment about 'how many of our players would get
into a top 4 team' out of my head. Yes - we all know its true (not many) - but for a manager to say it publically is ridiculous. Wenger never has a go about any of his players publically.

Completely agree.

Before that he specifically said he couldn't win the title at Spurs. While we may not be pie in the sky enough to think we can win it very soon, the manager should never be saying things like that. Not to the team and certainly not to the press

As I mentioned in another post earlier today, we'll find Glory in Europe this campaign and thanks to Plantini's new rule including UEFA Cup Winner's into Champs League, Levy & Co will have found their Golden Fleece.


When does this rule come in to effect?

hongkongyid wrote:

As I mentioned in another post earlier today, we'll find Glory in Europe this campaign and thanks to Plantini's new rule including UEFA Cup Winner's into Champs League, Levy & Co will have found their Golden Fleece.


When does this rule come in to effect?

That's in Hairy's dream as I recall

hongkongyid wrote:

As I mentioned in another post earlier today, we'll find Glory in Europe this campaign and thanks to Plantini's new rule including UEFA Cup Winner's into Champs League, Levy & Co will have found their Golden Fleece.


When does this rule come in to effect?

.. In my dream it was applicable next season, i.e., 2008-09... but it could (disastrously) be the following season, i.e., 2009 -10.

HKY, can you honestly see us beating the likes of Bayern Munich or Ajax, not to mention one or two other big teams who will drop out of the CL later in the season? Not gonna happen.

GDG wrote:

HKY, can you honestly see us beating the likes of Bayern Munich or Ajax, not to mention one or two other big teams who will drop out of the CL later in the season? Not gonna happen.

Yes.. Ajax and this current Munich side don't frighten me.

I think unfortunately we were bloody unlucky against Sevilla. It made me feel proud of Tottenham again. However, a penalty that never was, and 2 that clearly should have been awarded and even that early own goal would not have mattered...

I bet you that dodgy Swedish ref and his family enjoyed their "all expenses covered" luxury villa in the Canary Islands this summer, thanks to the Spanish Tourist Board! !!