League form under Ramos

Been doing a few calculations on how we've done in the league this season.

Manager__GP__W__D__L__GF__GA__GD__pts__PPG
Jol_______10__1__4__5___17__21___4___7____0.7
Allen_____1___0___0__1__1___2___-1____0___0
Ramos____20__9__5__6__42___28__+14__32__1.6

Ramos has bagged points at more than double the rate of Jol this season (let's leave aside reasons for Jol's under-performance and ENIC back-stabbing for now)
Importantly, extrapolating Ramos' form over the season = (32 / 20 x 38 ) or 38x1.6 = 61 points.

That's 5th place.

Food for thought, and cause for optimism for next season and a push towards the top of the table.

Good stats.

Let's not forget that, for whatever the reasons, the team were in relegation trouble when he arrived and he turned them around almost immediately.

Janek wrote:

Good stats.

Let's not forget that, for whatever the reasons, the team were in relegation trouble when he arrived and he turned them around almost immediately.

As I have said on other boards. People like to hail Jol as some svengali of management just because he got us 5th twice but even last year it was clear the rot had set in. Leaving aside the playing style of the team, we were clearly unfit and three years into his reign, the decline and deterioration in fitness was obviously more acute than at its start. Quite frankly we had become stale and the only slight lingering regret is that if we had given Ramos a full pre-season, who knows what might have happened. As things transpired we won our trophy, guzzled our champagne, and avoided relegation. So top marks to Spurs for getting rid of the media-friendly, talks-a-good-game-but-loses-against-big-4 Jol and replacing him with The Special Juan.

ramos

Comolli OUT

JOL OUT

They are impressive stats , have to admit i was a fan of Jol , maybe it was because we shared the same physical apperance , both Bald and a very ample verandah over the toy shop . Coys

Janek wrote:

Good stats.

Let's not forget that, for whatever the reasons, the team were in relegation trouble when he arrived and he turned them around almost immediately.

Hang on, is that an admission Ezza and I were right ??

Come on Janek, spit it out....S....sss.....ssoo......ssooorrrry.

Don't do it Janek!

Come on Janek.....say it, say it, say it.

spur'don wrote:

Janek wrote:

Good stats.

Let's not forget that, for whatever the reasons, the team were in relegation trouble when he arrived and he turned them around almost immediately.

Hang on, is that an admission Ezza and I were right ??

Come on Janek, spit it out....S....sss.....ssoo......ssooorrrry.

Not at all.

Spurs were in relegation trouble after 10 games. After 15 games we weren't and haven't been since.

It is only after 31 games that you and Ezza admitted we were out of the woods.

I understand your pessimism. If I was brought up sarf of the river I too would have such an outlook on life.

Apology accepted Janek.

Thank you.

Actually, Jez, the stats agree with Janek's point not yours: Spurs have not been in even remote danger of relegation since Ramos came in.

Anyway, that kind of goes off the point, which is: some people might say 'you won a cup, but you're only 11th'. The Ramos-only league table would look very different, and we'd be looking at another 5th place, plus a cup, and the whole media would be touting us as certs for the Champs League next year (let's remember that a lot of neutrals thought we'd get there this year).

On a related note, good to see Poyet coming out and stating a target of winning all 7 remaining games (which would theoretically take Ramos to 1.96 PPG!)

The discussion about relegation is a bit of tongue in cheek. I did consider relegation a serious threat up until we won consecutive games over the festive period - Fulham & Reading. Prior to beating Portsmouth away it was looking grim.

Yeah, yeah, Spurdon. You say that now.

I like the optimisim under Ramos but we should be cautious not to hail him as our messiah yet. We have lost 2 games to Birmingham (shipping in 7 goals in 2 games) and we have not done brilliantly in Europe either (remember the draw in our last group game which put us in 2nd place of the group facing a Champ League dropout?). We did not win convincingly against Slavia Prague and we lost to PSV at home. We have notably performed better againt the big teams but have sometimes failed to perform against the lesser teams (eg Derby away, Brums etc).

The one thing which sticks in my mind about Ramos was about 2 seasons ago, it was still a 3 horse race at the final round of league games in the La Liga. Sevilla may clinch the championship if they won their game and both Barca and Real dropped points. Ramos decided to throw in the subs and reserve the first team for the UEFA Cup final (against Boro I think). Sevilla lost their league game. I don't know what I'd feel if I were a Sevilla supporter, but suffice to say that I do not agree with his approach.

I wish Ramos will succeed at Spurs. Just that I think we should not over-celebrate his early form.

So my question to you Mr Yeung, and the rest of this idiot board is this: Would you take Mourinho over Ramos based on what you have seen?

I would.

Putting aside Mourinho's tie with Chelski, he has a proven track record (Portugese league champion, Champions League with Porto, Premier League with Chelski). Ramos' track record are UEFA Cup and Spanish Cups with Sevilla. Purely for the purpose of comparison, Champ League + League Championship >>>> UEFA Cup + Domestic Cup

I think we will need to wait for next season to see how well Ramos will do in the league for us. It is too premature to judge Ramos this season.

Sorry, but it’s a meaningless comparison if you leave out the reasons. Jol had been f*cked by the board and had consequently lost the dressing room. Ramos has been working under slightly more favorable conditions.

We’ll never know what Jol would have done if he wasn’t treated the way he was (apart from maybe increasing the opening hours of the tuck shop). Likely not as well as Ramos I agree.

but would you take Mourinho now leaving aside Jol? yes or no?

As much as I like General Ramos for his ambitious, enterprising and bold approach to the game, all he's proved so far over the last 3 or 4 seasons is that he's a master tactician in Cup competitions. As an "old school" Spurs supporter that's music to my ears.

However, being also a greedy bastard, I want CL footie on a consistent basis in seasons to come. Personally, I believe the General has what it takes to deliver this. Probably not next season though. However, there are two fundamental things lacking at Spurs that will work against him and he'll do very well to overcome them. Surprisingly, funding/budgets isn't one of them.

The first is the misguided DoF structure he will have to work within. For the past decade, Spurs beyond anyone else have proved this system doesn't work in English footie - 3 DoF, countless managers lay testiment to that. And this millstone aroung the General's neck is further exacerbated by the current DoF who's player recommendations and purchases thus far have exposed him as a con artist.

The second is patience, or lack thereof. This is something that the club simply does not have enough of. And this goes right through the heart of the organisation from El Presidente through to the fans......and it's not just the current crop. This has been a consistent them which leads to unecessary pressure for the last 20 years or so.

So, personally I believe the jury is still out on the General's abilities to turn us into a consistent CL candidate. It definitely won't happen next season. There will simply be too many new additions to bed in, many of which will be overseas players and this will add to the wait. Possibly the season after. But my wish is for the DoF system to be dropped, The General to be given full control and the supporters and El Presidente to chill out and enjoy a few more cup wins before wetting ourselves and demanding CL footie.

No, I wouldn't take Mourinho ahead of Ramos. Any muppet could have won the Portuguese league and the quality of opposition in the CL the year he won it was at best average. Then he got super lucky and won the EPL twice with a fantasy league squad which again would have been harder to lose the league then win it.

Mourinho's qualities will be proven at his next club. Put him in charge of Real, Barca or Milan and see what he delivers. I suspect he won't be so lucky.

So at this stage, I'd rather have the General at the Spurs helm, purley 'cos he's won us a cup and brought champagne football back to Tottenham. So there!

Well put Eric , ALL Hail El Supremo Ramos .

yonderE17 wrote:

Sorry, but it’s a meaningless comparison if you leave out the reasons. Jol had been f*cked by the board...

Yonder, you miss the point, mate. I mean let's not get sidetracked here on a debate on Jol, as that's not what this thread is about. It's entirely focussed on what Ramos has achieved

Ezza makes some good points. However, why not aim for CL next season? We finished 5th for two seasons running, Ramos-only games would have put us 5th again this season, and we have quality throughout the back and front lines. We are only 1 or 2 players away (in midfield) from cracking it, and Liverpool are no better than us.

I wouldn't want to predict a top 4 finish next year, but we'll definitely be top 6 and there's no reason not to push on a improve further.