Spurs v Middesboro

FFC columnist Harry Hockley is appalled at yet another mediocre Spurs performance and wonders what Billy Nick would have made of this current rabble of mediocrity.

The great Billy Nick once claimed "If you don't have to drag yourself off the field exhausted after 90 minutes, you can't claim to have done your best." Wise words indeed by the Spurs great and I just wonder how many of our current XI can look at themselves comfortably in the mirror this evening after yet another dismal performance, which can only be described as minging at best.

Am I the only Spurs fan who is growing tired and fed up of our player's current disregard for our manager's demands? They have been warned that they are all playing for their futures and it disgusts me that so many of them seem to play with half heartedness and lack of passion.
It is clear that our current squads ambition was to win a Carling Cup, pure and simple. They don't have aspirations for titles, UEFA cups or any other goals, they have reached their level and I for one will be glad to see the back of those players, who constantly fail to give 100% to the famous white shirt. We have a bunch of coasters at the club for far too long and I can't wait for Ramos to wield the axe.
As I had a post game beer in the Oak room somebody passed comment on what he felt, Sir Bill would have said had he been managing the current side after yet another half hearted display; bearing in mind that he once slaughtered his team after a 6-0 victory for the manner in which they played. Billy Nick was different he believed in giving the public what they wanted, a principle in which I believe is shared by Ramos but unfortunately he is constantly being disappointed by the current rabble assembled by his predecessor. Ramos will get the chance to fix this problem in the summer and for me it can't come sooner.
I don't know about anyone else but I for one cannot wait for this season to end. It is becoming too painful to put into words and the only positive you can get from it apart from the fact there is only four games to go, is that it has allowed us to see the true colours of our players and highlighted to us who really wants to play for our great football club. There is far too much mediocrity that has been forced upon us for far too long. Sir Bill wouldn't have put up with it and I'm sure Ramos won't when he brings in his own men.

colininDB wrote:

Also, for me the dury is still out for Ramos. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment coz the players are not his and I think a lot of players realise they will be replaced.

Hoiw many times do we have to try playing with three strikers before we realised that IT DOESN'T WORK!

Ramos out? maybe give him another week....

Dawson was great in heading and tackling but he has to improve the problem of misjudge and wrong-timing, also he was really really poor in first touch and passing the ball out.

The Guinness and food was much better than the football in Delaneys last night... we either should be taking the games seriously or using them to experiment. With the starting line up and the absence of blooding the youngsters, it would appear that the management/players are trying to put out the best 11 available and try to win games. Being the case and not needing to save players for mid-week games, I have to say that the substitutions lost us the 3 points in this game - we should have keep the starting 11 for the whole 90 mins - end of story. We had great shape for the first 65 mins... two wingers, supported by two full backs who were defending as well as getting forward. Two confident central midfielders who were really trying to play football knowing they had the edge over the opposition. Keane and Berbatov playing some glorious link-up play (although a little too much showboating from Berba rather than just being clinical). And Dawson looking the more comfortable out of a solid Daws/Woody centreback partnership. Cerny won't be here after the summer.

At 65 mins we should have been 3-0 up at least, it's not that we've been switching defensive trying hold a 1-0 lead, but the lack of ability to simply kill off a game when we are far superior to the opposition is a real concern. We got 1 point vs Blackburn this season and totally dominated both games - this is 5 points lost vs just one team.

Then we go to a wingless, through the middle formation with the withdrawal of my man of the season Steed and Lennon (while still better at giving away goal kicks than cross - can do damage when he cuts inside and tries a simple pass) - and think that by putting three up front we are suddenly going to be able to overcome this deficiency down the flanks. Bent will thrive off crosses, not suffocated through the centre play. And this wingless play at a time when Boro bring on two more wingers. After the final 20 mins, we should be actually be happy with the draw - but only through shooting ourselves in the foot with the formation.



Final word - Downing is crap - scores a fluke in front of an England manager again. Hutton had him in his pocket the whole game. Can we please never be linked with this over-hyped waste of space again.

Hairy wrote:

LoubyLou wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz

that's charming.. you mean the match, or my post match reporting?

Ha ha!!! Match, result, performances, players enthusiasm = ZZZZZZZ

Match report - simply amazing, enthralling

twiglet wrote:

Hairy wrote:

LoubyLou wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz

that's charming.. you mean the match, or my post match reporting?

Maybe she's just tired Hairy?

Well, I don't tend to bother with post match reporting.....

Linesmann wrote:

Dawson was great in heading and tackling but he has to improve the problem of misjudge and wrong-timing, also he was really really poor in first touch and passing the ball out.

Yes, but that's a general description of his limitations. His tackles and heading were excellent for the first match in ages. Plus he looked to have developed an understanding with Woodgate. I've been knocking Dawson all season, but credit to him for yesterday. The only problem was when Alves got past him for pace in the second half and narrowly missed.

Tottingham wrote:

The Guinness and food was much better than the football in Delaneys last night... we either should be taking the games seriously or using them to experiment. With the starting line up and the absence of blooding the youngsters, it would appear that the management/players are trying to put out the best 11 available and try to win games. Being the case and not needing to save players for mid-week games, I have to say that the substitutions lost us the 3 points in this game - we should have keep the starting 11 for the whole 90 mins - end of story. We had great shape for the first 65 mins... two wingers, supported by two full backs who were defending as well as getting forward. Two confident central midfielders who were really trying to play football knowing they had the edge over the opposition. Keane and Berbatov playing some glorious link-up play (although a little too much showboating from Berba rather than just being clinical). And Dawson looking the more comfortable out of a solid Daws/Woody centreback partnership. Cerny won't be here after the summer.

At 65 mins we should have been 3-0 up at least, it's not that we've been switching defensive trying hold a 1-0 lead, but the lack of ability to simply kill off a game when we are far superior to the opposition is a real concern. We got 1 point vs Blackburn this season and totally dominated both games - this is 5 points lost vs just one team.

Then we go to a wingless, through the middle formation with the withdrawal of my man of the season Steed and Lennon (while still better at giving away goal kicks than cross - can do damage when he cuts inside and tries a simple pass) - and think that by putting three up front we are suddenly going to be able to overcome this deficiency down the flanks. Bent will thrive off crosses, not suffocated through the centre play. And this wingless play at a time when Boro bring on two more wingers. After the final 20 mins, we should be actually be happy with the draw - but only through shooting ourselves in the foot with the formation.



Final word - Downing is crap - scores a fluke in front of an England manager again. Hutton had him in his pocket the whole game. Can we please never be linked with this over-hyped waste of space again.

I must say, Tottingham, that that's an excellent analysis of the game.

Can things get much worse? I've seen a fair number of poor Tottenham games over the years but since winning the League Cup, our performances have gone from bad to worse and I can hardly remember so many spineless, insipid performances. Tottingham and others have summed up last night's game perfectly and I admire those whose optimism believe that Ramos will get things right over summer. As it stands, he seems utterly incapable of getting this mob of players to raise their game. It's no secret that I was a big Martin Jol fan and was sad to see him go but I accepted that it was probably the right decision at the time. However, under Ramos I've seen the occasional flashes of brilliance but mostly have been left bemused and frustrated by his tactics. Sure he got it right for the semi-final and final, but he has also lost us games with his insane decisions. WTF did he play Gilberto against PSV - an act that basically lost us that tie? How do you explain his unwillingness to use Lee and play an incompetent O'hara at left back? What about his goalkeeping choices, and his use of Bent as a third striker? Last night summed it all up for me - taking Steed and Lennon off and leaving us with no width at all left me screaming 'You don't know what you're doing' at the screen. Perhaps someone on here can enlighten me but I'm fucked if I can figure out what's going on in Ramos' head.

PS

Can't wait for this season to be over. Each week is turning into an embarrassment for us. Just hope to god we get off to a flier next season!

imho, there must probably be umpteen (unkown good) reasons regarding Ramos' experimentation with team since the CC Final.

Surely Bent deserves to be given time to see if he is going to be a long-term player for Spurs. He's fit now. However with Berba and Keane on fire, 20 mins until the rest of the season is probably the most Ramos can afford to give him. .. especially if they continue to fail to put the game to bed early on in the game.

There were times against Blackburn and Boro when they made it look like a training ground exercise, most probably to the disdain of Ramos. Similar reasoning possibly for O'Hara and Gilberto. A fee has already been agreed with PSV for Lee, so what's the point in playing him?

Chimbonda will probably be off, hence our signing Hutton and Gunter. Question is, will we need a LB? Quite possibly, we now know that O'Hara isn't good enough to play in that position.


Ramos may be trying to prove a point to the Board. By this, I mean which players don't cut the mustard while at the same time giving credence to the ones he wants to see in their place in August.

Comparisons between Jol and Ramos are to my mind, extraodinary. Martin Jol reminds me of the Bruce Rioch era before Venger's arrival.

El Maestro is IN DA HOUSE.

COYS!

Jason mate, I beg to differ. Why did Ramos play a clearly unfit and untried Gilberto against PSV in the first leg when a perfectly acceptable and reliable player such as Lee was waiting in the wings? Gilberto's ineptitude cost us dearly that night.

How much have we really improved under Ramos? Apart from a League Cup run, I have taken little or no pleasure in most of our performances. The season died the day we beat Chelsea. Ramos has clearly failed as a motivator since then. The fact that players seem uninterested and treat each match like a training session must be cause for concern. Where's the respect for the paying fans? Where's the respect for the coach? Where's the desire to show you are worth your place in next season's team? I don't hold high hopes for next season and fully expect it to be our 20th transition season in a row. I hope I'm wrong.

And for me Ramos is no Wenger and Jol is certainly no Rioch. It seems we are so willing to cut Ramos slack but forget that Jol got us to two consecutive 5th places plus with a bit more luck we would have had our first CL experience. Our league performances under Ramos have been nothing short of appalling.

Cheers

Fellow Yids

Is it possible that Ramos is looking at all players , ie no one is safe , maybe he is giving all players enough rope to see if they hang themselves , by way of lack of effort , i suppose the only way of finding out if players are really commited is by playing them . I feel Ramos may not be as open as Jol was , that is in his style of communicating . But i feel that he is accumalating info on all players and is just waiting for season to end . I myself liked Jol and yes he did guide us to two 5th places , but we did not win anything , under Ramos we did , be paitent because Ramos is the right man for the job , if the players are not giving there all i am confident that this is being noted . No player is bigger then the club , no player is safe . Hope you get my drift not vey good with words . Coys

Fans are beginning to question Ramos. However I tend to agree with Jason and feel it's unfair to judge Ramos until he has a full season under his belt. This is not his team. It's an awful midfield and as I've said on numerous occasions the defence won't function properly without a solid midfield providing front line cover.

With the exception of Birmingham away recent performances have been okay but not sustained through out 90 minutes. Against Blackburn and Boro we played with panache and looked in control. We should have won those games by converting our 1st half dominance.

It was odd taking Steed and Lennon off, however until next season I'm prepared to believe Ramos using this period to experiment and learn what sort of squad he has at his disposal.

He pursued Woodgate and Hutton, both of whom look quality signings. Let's see who he bring in during the summer and what shape 'his' team takes next season.

I also maintain Jol was overrated and it's no coincidence he has yet to find another team. He won't walk into a big job.

spur'don wrote:

With the exception of Birmingham away recent performances have been okay but not sustained through out 90 minutes.

Jezza, you must have missed the Newcastle home game 2 weeks ago.

I agree with Ozspur. While Ramos has won us a cup, we should not hail him as our messiah yet. His reputation as a Cup king may not last him very long if he continues this poor form in the league next season.

We sacked Jol for Ramos, so we should be expecting Ramos to do better than Jol in the league. We are still in the bottom half of the table. To be honest, I have never thought that we would get relegated under Jol. Ramos' impact on our league form has been minimal in my opinion.

Ramos' tactics have been talked about as bold (playing 2-5-3 or 3-4-3 when we were down in his first matches) but how many times do that really come off? It may have come off now and then but some decisions have equally cost us games.

I am not anti-Ramos or pro-Jol. I think we just need to stay calm until next season to judge whether Ramos is a real deal.

ozspur wrote:

PS

Can't wait for this season to be over. Each week is turning into an embarrassment for us. Just hope to god we get off to a flier next season!

It is sad but I feel the same way, as each game approaches I feel an awkward about the match rather than excited, hoping that we play some nice football and don't embarrass ourselves too much rather than confidently supporting the team to victory...

...This is not the natural order of things and it feels strange and unpleasant! Can we please fast forward to Mid-August and start again!
PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The season died the day we beat Chelsea.[i]

Thats the way I feel too, and for this the players themselves have to take a long hard fuckin look at themselves, we were pissing all over Blackburn and Boro and then they just gave up.

Next season can't come quick enough for me, and too think because the FA are a useless bunch of twunts, I have nothing to look forward to in the summer.

I don't understand the Ramos knocking myself. The guy has won us a cup and saved us from a relegation battle - thats fact and a pretty impressive one considering where we were when Juande took over. Comparing Jol with Ramos is pointless imho and the are opposites both tactically and with attitudes towards training/squads etc.

Ramos has proven to me he has what it takes and although its a slow, painful end of the season I cannot read much into it as we have nothing to play for. Yes, the paying supporters and all supporters are pretty naffed off with the apathy being shown right now but I judge when it matters and when it does (on this seasons evidence) he can get them fired up. Maybe this is all part of the masterplan - underplaying the significance of the end of season to see who wants it even when there is nothing to play for. On the weeknds evidence only Daws still puts his heart and soul into it. In Ramos I trust.

While not being fully convinced yet on Ramos, I am happy to give the man two/three seasons to lay down his plans - no club benefits from regularly changing manager.

However, I am starting to get a little concerned that Ramos may be starting to become a "tinkerman" - I mean if it ain't broke, why are we fixing it. If the players are doing their shit out on the pitch, why do we need to fuck it all up for the sake of end of season experimentation. Do we really need to give Bent his 20 mins of invisibility every week - Ramos should just tell him to go outside the stadium and run round the block a couple of times - that'll keep him fit for pre-season. He'll see as much of the ball out there (maybe more if Zokora has a shot during the game).

Admittedly Steed was a 60-70min player earlier in the season - but the fitness regime brought in seemed to really benefit him - yet still he's the first to get taken off nearly every game and usually for someone who just can't do the same kinda sheeeeite that the mighty steed can down the flanks.

What usually follows is a left-back replacement, as more pressure appears to be coming down the opposition right-flank... and apparently we need to do something about it - hence enter a Gilberto or a O'hara or even a Teemu - and let them take a 15 min smacking to their confidence.

Why the right flank pressure?... - cos Steed has the power of two men, a creative hard working midfielder (in the disguise of a left-winger) and equally a hard tacking full back.

VOTE FOR STEED.

and we are only 3 points off top half of the table by the way

Tottingham wrote:

While not being fully convinced yet on Ramos, I am happy to give the man two/three seasons to lay down his plans - no club benefits from regularly changing manager.

However, I am starting to get a little concerned that Ramos may be starting to become a "tinkerman" - I mean if it ain't broke, why are we fixing it. If the players are doing their shit out on the pitch, why do we need to fuck it all up for the sake of end of season experimentation. Do we really need to give Bent his 20 mins of invisibility every week - Ramos should just tell him to go outside the stadium and run round the block a couple of times - that'll keep him fit for pre-season. He'll see as much of the ball out there (maybe more if Zokora has a shot during the game).

Admittedly Steed was a 60-70min player earlier in the season - but the fitness regime brought in seemed to really benefit him - yet still he's the first to get taken off nearly every game and usually for someone who just can't do the same kinda sheeeeite that the mighty steed can down the flanks.

What usually follows is a left-back replacement, as more pressure appears to be coming down the opposition right-flank... and apparently we need to do something about it - hence enter a Gilberto or a O'hara or even a Teemu - and let them take a 15 min smacking to their confidence.

Why the right flank pressure?... - cos Steed has the power of two men, a creative hard working midfielder (in the disguise of a left-winger) and equally a hard tacking full back.

VOTE FOR STEED.

I think he is tinkering because he can. This is the perfect time for him to see who is who and what is what. If we are beating a team but the result is irrelevant then why not use it as an excuse to see if Gilberto really is as a shit as the fans think or that Da Ghetto Prince is tottooed plum of the highest order. All this has the caveat that it cannot continue into next season of course but by then it should all be settled in that Spanish mind of his...

they should let us know that this is the intention for the rest of the season, so we can switch the telly off after 60mins. or offer the suffering WHL attendees their money back for 20% of their season ticket price. it's not just a couple of games now is it. go and experiment on the training ground, surely we can tell the shit from the shinola out there.

doesn't really fit with the comments given by El Gustavo a few weeks back about us wanting to win the final 7 games of the season. it's Now TV fault - we should be all going out and doing other things at this stage of the season, why oh why do they have to have every game live on TV.

If, and it's a big if, Ramos tinkers about at the start of next season frustration will increase and be valid. Until then, whatever he does between now and the end of season is largely irrelevant. Any manager would struggle to motivate our lot. Yes, you are playing for places....same for any side, but nothing beats playing for a target. We aren't in the relegation battle, don't need to chase an inter toto spot.

I honestly wouldn't read anything into what happens between now and end of May.

Tottingham wrote:

they should let us know that this is the intention for the rest of the season, so we can switch the telly off after 60mins. or offer the suffering WHL attendees their money back for 20% of their season ticket price. it's not just a couple of games now is it. go and experiment on the training ground, surely we can tell the shit from the shinola out there.

doesn't really fit with the comments given by El Gustavo a few weeks back about us wanting to win the final 7 games of the season. it's Now TV fault - we should be all going out and doing other things at this stage of the season, why oh why do they have to have every game live on TV.

I agree its a massive fleecing of the fans money (and any supporters time and effort) when games are not taken seriously but thats the modern game - unless there is someting riding on the result the players don't try. It's a sad, sad situation.

Is he tinkering with the side or checking out fringe players? I dont think so. It seems to be roughly the same starting 11 in each game. Other than trying the 3 up front model - oops it failed again, I think we are playing the same way.

Heard something on one of the podcasts saying that the training groung isnt a happy place at the moment with a lot of the players knowing they are on the way out. This is probably the reason why the players lose interest when we are not leading by a couple of goals by half-time.

I still cant understand why we dont give some of the youngsters a start when we dont have anything to lose. Who knows one might excel like O'Hara. I'm really not that interested in seeing Robinson, Cherny, Chimbonda, Zakora, Jenas, Malbranque, Tainio etc play in games where they would rather be elsewhere lets try the reserves.